Insurance - Public Liability

(Just carried this item over from Facebook where it was gathering dust. Please edit as you think fit, Richard.)

Insurance - Have you got any?Just a reminder to everyone that you really do need an Insurance Policy to cover Public Liability Insurance if you will be using your submarine anywhere public - pools, ponds etc. (I'm reminded because members have recently been asked for Insurance Certificates for the Warwick Boat Show)

The AMS committee decided to discontinue insurance because so many members already had insurance through their own boat club etc.

It is up to make sure that you are covered through your home club etc.

You can obtain your own insurance policy quite cheaply - I suggest contacting our previous insurers Walker Midgley (www.walkermidgley.co.uk)
over a year ago · Delete Post.Andrew Lawrence
Not wishing to be contentious, but how valid would any insurance be if the need arises to make a claim?

Has each individual carried out a risk assessment, has the AMS carried out one?

I only ask this because, generally if insurance companies can wiggle out of a claim, they will. Or to put it another way, make sure you read the small print because even the best of organisations are up to some sharp practice in these litigious days.
over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post.Steve Juden
I spend most of my day doing risk assessments for the building trade and Andrew is quite correct, no matter how small the problem is they will wriggle and make excuses so that they do not have to pay out a claim.
over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post.David Forrest
It was only a reminder because of something that cropped up recently at Warwick and in recognition that model submariners are an independent bunch - they may forget about it etc.

If you have decided you don't wish to be insured then it is your decision.

In my view, it makes my membership of the Furness Model Boat Club very worthwhile. Because yes, we do live in litigious times.
over a year ago · Delete Post.Andrew Lawrence
Something that concerns me, is why exhibition organisers expect the individual to be insured. Do they not take out a policy of insurance to cover the show and the models in it?

IMO they should do, after all you are taking the time and trouble to exhibit your model so that the organisers can turn a profit by charging spectators to look at it, the least they can do is ensure your model is covered for loss whilst on their premises.

Unless you are running a ballast system that uses flammable gas, or using projectiles and/or explosives (I'm doubtful any model insurance would cover this) then the most volatile bit in any model submarine is the battery pack.

Question- how many people with mobile phones, digital cameras etc. are covered against their equipment causing personal injury?
over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post.David John Jacques
If you are in a public area ( park etc) you should be covered by the park for visitors. If you are a high risk entertainment item you will be asked for third party liability coverage. If you are at non public venue (privately organised event you may have to produce evidence that you have coverage, if not you will not be allowed to attend/display even if you consider yourself to be of low risk.What we may consider to be a minor accident may turn into a claim on yourself or the organisers.
over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post.Andrew Lawrence
Gotcha. Seems to be a recent thing- I've never had model insurance, and never been asked for any at shows where I've brought a model along to in the past.

All this sort of thing will eventually lead to one conclusion- less folk willing to make a contribution to shows.
over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post.Andrew Lawrence
BTW, worth reading the policy details at the Walker Midgley website. It says explosions from boilers and/or pressure vessels are not covered unless the vessels have been certified or are very small, under test etc.

I would ask them if this extended to model submarines, as they are pressure vessels albeit low pressure ones.
over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post.David Forrest
The issue of insurance of gas systems for submarines was rather contentious in the past - let's not go back there!

Most clubs have people/ facilities to advise on pressure testing bioilers so worth asking them etc. Most iof our pressure vessels are so small as to be not even considered.

Again I think it stresses the general point that insurance IS worth having by the cheapest easiest route
over a year ago · Delete Post.Andrew Lawrence
I was referring to the dive modules/wtc's we use in our models.

Picture the following scenario-

Battery mounted inside WTC. Said battery develops a fault and goes short circuit inside a sealed cylinder. Cylinder goes a boom, boom.

Do you reckon the insurance company would cover you?

To me insurance for all models just looks like a license to print money by the companies involved. Flying models it's a good idea,as they can cause a great deal of damage, especially when they're big and heavy. Even then I wonder how far the cover extends e.g. do you have be flying at a designated flying site with maximum safeguards set-up etc. I fly on a local bit of common land and build my flying machines under a pound in weight.
over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post.David Forrest
That's your view, Andy, and very well expressed as always. If you don't want to have insurance cover it is up to you as an individual to not have it.

I would be grateful though if you would not seek to destroy the whole concept of insurance amongst the members of the AMS, Until recently we provided cover for members. We don't now and they DO need it for a broad range of activities. It seemed only right to remind them of this.

You aren't a member of the AMS and so you maybe see it differently. Again that is up to you.
over a year ago · Delete Post.Andrew Lawrence
I'm not attempting to destroy a concept, I'm merely asking questions as to whether a model submariner is adequately covered by model insurance policies.

As a former claims inspector once told me- you only find out how good your cover is, when you need to make a claim.
over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post.Steve Juden
Out of interest have we ever needed to make a claim in the past history of the AMS, or any boat model club?
over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post.Nigel Edmonds
Firstly I think we are getting away from the point, it is a requirement that you have public liability insurance at the majority of the shows that the AMS attends, I have made a claim on public liability insurance for another club I was involved with a display table was droped on a member of the publics foot, it was quite strait forward and liability was acepted by the insurance company and the individual was paid out, somthing else I would strongly advise against never fly anything in a public place even if it is a park flyer you need permision, and if you where to hit someone in the face you are liable and probably breaking the law, no amount of public liability insurance can protect you from your own stupidity,public liability insurance is just that you will not be paid out for damage sustained to your boat, I have a special policy for that,from beleive it or not Tesco's well worth having and I have combined it with our house contents policy.
over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post.Nigel Edmonds
Andy in reply to you question re:presure vessel's,when the AMS took out the insurance with w/m the terms and coditions where gone over very carefully and the question of pressure vessel's was discussed with w/m and agreed with them,the limitations where then published in the Mag, w/m had no concerns regarding gas ballast system as was pointed out to me by them they insure many gas powered models with a naked flame on board including jet turbine's, they allso agreed that the presure that a submarine ballast tank can hope to achive is way bellow anything that would concern them, They also agreed that as long as the pressure vessel did no go ubove the pressure stated on thier standard policy there would be no problem, I can at this min recal what that pressure was but it was way above the pressures we work with.
over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post.Andrew Lawrence
Fairy snuff.
over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post.Richard J Huggett
Dare I say this, but perhaps it may have been a premature decision to have cancelled the AMS insurance?
over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post.Nigel Edmonds
Richard,
you could well take that view but the majority of people wanted a reduction in subscription, and where allready insured through other clubs go back through Changes to the AMS on the discusion board some months ago now but it runs into four pages debating this very subject.
over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post.Richard J Huggett
I know Nigel, the old saying applies here I guess..."you can't please everybody all of the time".


over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post.Andrew Lawrence
What you can do, is appoint a spokesman and run a little note in the magazine along the lines of' Do you have model insurance? If not contact me and we'll make up a list and go to 'W.E Fleecem and co.' and apply for a group discount on their usual rates.'

Simples.
over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post.Steve Juden
That was the approach Merton Society of Model Engineers had, with its fifteen members of which five had steam locos that took kids for rides on a track, the other members always complained that they were subsidising them, In the end the rail group did their own insurance and it was cheaper as it was only for the five members.
Most of the others only did static displays as the models were broken 1930's scratchbuilt stuff with several layers of dust and hadn't seen a lake for many years.
One of the reasons that I left Merton society of static modellers, that and being treasurer, exhibition sec and mag editor with no help.
Moans over

over a year ago