The Association of Model Submariners.

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

* THE FORUM FOR ALL THOSE INTERESTED IN BUILDING AND OPERATING MODEL SUBMARINES *



Join the AMS - Registered Forum users can become members of the AMS and it's free ...... To join send an email with your name , address and phone number to amstreasure@googlemail.com


For a guide to past events see the "Shows and Events" section.
Bournville MBC on Sunday 11th August 2024, 10.00 i
::::

Papplewick Pumping Station Sub Weekend, 14th & !5th Sept 2024

P~~~

$$$

Who is online?

In total there are 2 users online :: 0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 2 Guests :: 1 Bot

None


Most users ever online was 180 on Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:03 am

Latest topics

» Futaba -868/915mhz equipment
Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic EmptyYesterday at 4:46 pm by tsenecal

» RC Drift Gyro for pitch control
Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic EmptySun Oct 20, 2024 2:04 pm by geofrancis

» WW2 mini sub build
Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic EmptyThu Oct 17, 2024 2:34 pm by geofrancis

» sonar data link
Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic EmptyMon Oct 14, 2024 4:31 pm by geofrancis

» Robbe Seawolf V2
Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic EmptySat Oct 12, 2024 3:52 pm by geofrancis

» ExpressLRS - 868/915 Mhz equipment
Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic EmptyFri Oct 11, 2024 8:58 pm by Marylandradiosailor

» Flight controllers as sub levelers
Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic EmptyFri Oct 11, 2024 8:14 pm by geofrancis

» 868/915 Mhz as a viable frequency for submarines.
Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic EmptyThu Oct 10, 2024 3:21 am by tsenecal

» Microgyro pitch controller corrosion
Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic EmptyWed Oct 02, 2024 11:32 am by geofrancis

Statistics

Our users have posted a total of 12534 messages in 1992 subjects

We have 1020 registered users

The newest registered user is JSAF

3 posters

    Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic

    david f
    david f
    AMS Treasurer


    Posts : 2412
    Join date : 2010-11-10
    Age : 74
    Location : Cumbria

    Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic Empty Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic

    Post  david f Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:54 pm

    Some details of the new ultrasonic Pinger which I have been working on recently.

    The old Pinger did a very good job and saved quite a few subs over the years (mostly mine!) It had good battery life (about a month) and the hydrophone and amplifier were reasonably simple to obtain or construct.

    The main limitation (which people commented on) is that it isn't directional. You have to locate the sub by how loud the ping is. This is because the Ping is an audio signal at the relatively low frequency of about 3000Hz.

    At the time of development, ultrasonic transducers were large and expensive and Arduino microprocessors were not around. I knew that Ultrasonic Pingers would be much more directional from some helpful contact with Loughborough University:

    http://www.lboro.ac.uk/enterprise/case-studies/aquamark100/

    That has all changed now. Ultrasonic car parking sensors are cheaply available (the ones specified run at 40kHz) and the Arduino is a lovely processor for rapid prototyping.

    So here it is!

    Please treat this is a work in progress, have a go and let me know how you get on. (And you can also detect bats!)

    The prototype Pinger is a bit bigger than it needs to be and it has only had one outing in my Type XXI. On this occasion the Pinger range ( a couple of hundred feet) was greater than my openLRS r/c system (Ouch and see my separate post!)

    The directional effect was very pronounced just by rotating the transducer plugged into the Bat Detector.

    CR2032 battery life at this stage of development is a few days.

    You need to do a little bit of trimming on the Arduino board to remove a power LED to reduce the current draw even more.



    Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic 20160437
    The Pinger has two outputs one audio and the other ultrasonic. The audio one makes it backward compatible with hydrophones and lets you know when it is turned on.

    A reed switch and magnet turn the device off (So for safety sake it is normally on - as with the Pinger 1). The short section of brass tube is for leak detection using my trusty inflated balloon.

    Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic 20160432
    Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic 20160434
    Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic 20160433

    A handful of the waterproof ultrasonic transducers (I have cut one in half to investigate its innards.
    Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic 20160435

    Supplier list:

    I recommend Stevie (Scooterboy101) for supply of Arduinos. He was very helpful for supply and support.

    Waterproof Ultrasonic Transducers:

    2PCS 18MM 40KHZ Waterproof Ultrasonic Sensor Receiver Transmitter 1R+1T
    ( 111151241872 )

    1 item sold by sister1252010

    Arduino Pro Mini 3.3 v 328:

    5x Arduino compatible Pro Mini 3.3 Volt ATMEGA328 3.3v TESTED UK STOCK
    ( 161795041342 )

    1 item sold by scooterboy101

    Bat detector kit: (From Magenta Electronics)

    http://www.magenta2000.co.uk/acatalog/Bat_Detector_Mk_2.html

    Arduino Sketch:

    /* Ultrasonic Pinger routine for underwater search.

    * David Forrest, 5 April 2016
    * Not to be used for commercial gain
    * With grateful thanks to Steven Cowie (Scooterboy101 on Ebay) for power minimisation  routines (by Donal Morrissey) and provision of Arduinos

    *  modified
    * LED 13 commented out
    * Power LED scratched out
    * Current consumption about 0.1mA (sleeping) to 5 mA
    * But 2 x CR2032 only lasted for 6 days (16/4/2016)
    */

    #include <avr/sleep.h>
    #include <avr/power.h>
    #include <avr/wdt.h>

    //#define LED_PIN (13)

    volatile int f_wdt=1;

    /*when watchdog times out*/

    ISR(WDT_vect)
    {
    if(f_wdt == 0)
    {
    f_wdt=1;
    }
    else
    {
    Serial.println("WDT Overrun!!!");
    /*only executes if main loop takes too long to complete
    versus the watchdog timeout value*/
    }
    }


    void enterSleep(void)
    {
    set_sleep_mode(SLEEP_MODE_PWR_DOWN);
    sleep_enable();

    /* Now enter sleep mode. */
    sleep_mode();

    /* The program will continue from here after the WDT timeout*/
    sleep_disable(); /* First thing to do is disable sleep. */

    /* Re-enable the peripherals. */
    power_all_enable();
    }



    void setup()
    {
    Serial.begin(9600);
    Serial.println("Initialising...");
    delay(100); //Allow for serial print to complete.

    //pinMode(LED_PIN,OUTPUT);

    /*** Setup the WDT ***/

    /* Clear the reset flag. */
    MCUSR &= ~(1<<WDRF);

    /* In order to change WDE or the prescaler, we need to
    * set WDCE (This will allow updates for 4 clock cycles).
    */
    WDTCSR |= (1<<WDCE) | (1<<WDE);

    /* set new watchdog timeout prescaler value */
    WDTCSR = 1<<WDP0 | 1<<WDP3; /* 8.0 seconds */

    /* Enable the WD interrupt (without it causing resets). */
    WDTCSR |= _BV(WDIE);

    Serial.println("Initialisation complete.");
    delay(100); //Allow for serial print to complete.
    }

    void loop()
    {
    if(f_wdt == 1)
    {
    /* Commands to execute when WDT brings processor out of sleep
    in this example toggles the LED on or Off on each wake cyle
    */

    //digitalWrite(LED_PIN, !digitalRead(LED_PIN));

    // Ultrasonic output on Pin 3 for 1.5 seconds by DF
    tone(3,40000);
    delay(1500);
    noTone(3);

    Serial.println("Ultrasonic tone complete.");
    delay(100); //Allow for serial print to complete.

    // Audio tone output on Pin 4 for 1.5 seconds by DF
    tone(4,3000);
    delay(1500);
    noTone(4);

    Serial.println("Audio tone output complete.");
    delay(100); //Allow for serial print to complete.

    /* carried out our commands clear the flag. */
    f_wdt = 0;

    /* flag cleared go back to sleep till next time */
    enterSleep();
    }

    else
    {
    /*do nothing*/
    }
    }


    Source files:

    If you would like a complete Arduino skech file you can download from our website:

    http://associationofmodelsubmariners.com/files.php
    david f
    david f
    AMS Treasurer


    Posts : 2412
    Join date : 2010-11-10
    Age : 74
    Location : Cumbria

    Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic Empty Re: Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic

    Post  david f Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:29 pm

    I've just been doing some tweaks to the Ultrasonic Pinger Software.

    Some pond trials showed that you were better off having a longer ultrasonic pulse to enable you to sense the direction of the Pinger (attached to the lost sub) by rotating the sensor connected to the bat detector.

    So I have set the ultrasonic pulse length to 4 seconds. The audio pulse is only really there to let you know that the Pinger is switched on, so I have set this to 0.5 seconds to minimise power consumption.

    I also now just clip the Pinger to the keel of the sub externally. You don't notice any drag and it means you don't need to find any internal "wet" space.

    Revised code follows:


    /* Ultrasonic Pinger routine for underwater search.

    * David Forrest, 5 April 2016
    * Not to be used for commercial gain
    * With grateful thanks to Steven Cowie (Scooterboy101 on Ebay) for power minimisation  routines (by Donal Morrissey) and provision of Arduinos

    *  modified
    * LED 13 commented out
    * Power LED scratched out
    * Current consumption about 0.1mA (sleeping) to 5 mA
    * But 2 x CR2032 only lasted for 6 days (16/4/2016)
    * Increased ultrasonic tone length to 4 seconds and reduced audio tone to 0.5s to improve direction finding by scanning hydrophone without increasing power consumption too much(24/11/2016)
    */

    #include <avr/sleep.h>
    #include <avr/power.h>
    #include <avr/wdt.h>

    //#define LED_PIN (13)

    volatile int f_wdt=1;

    /*when watchdog times out*/

    ISR(WDT_vect)
    {
    if(f_wdt == 0)
    {
    f_wdt=1;
    }
    else
    {
    Serial.println("WDT Overrun!!!");
    /*only executes if main loop takes too long to complete
    versus the watchdog timeout value*/
    }
    }


    void enterSleep(void)
    {
    set_sleep_mode(SLEEP_MODE_PWR_DOWN);
    sleep_enable();

    /* Now enter sleep mode. */
    sleep_mode();

    /* The program will continue from here after the WDT timeout*/
    sleep_disable(); /* First thing to do is disable sleep. */

    /* Re-enable the peripherals. */
    power_all_enable();
    }



    void setup()
    {
    Serial.begin(9600);
    Serial.println("Initialising...");
    delay(100); //Allow for serial print to complete.

    //pinMode(LED_PIN,OUTPUT);

    /*** Setup the WDT ***/

    /* Clear the reset flag. */
    MCUSR &= ~(1<<WDRF);

    /* In order to change WDE or the prescaler, we need to
    * set WDCE (This will allow updates for 4 clock cycles).
    */
    WDTCSR |= (1<<WDCE) | (1<<WDE);

    /* set new watchdog timeout prescaler value */
    WDTCSR = 1<<WDP0 | 1<<WDP3; /* 8.0 seconds */

    /* Enable the WD interrupt (without it causing resets). */
    WDTCSR |= _BV(WDIE);

    Serial.println("Initialisation complete.");
    delay(100); //Allow for serial print to complete.
    }

    void loop()
    {
    if(f_wdt == 1)
    {
    /* Commands to execute when WDT brings processor out of sleep
    in this example toggles the LED on or Off on each wake cyle
    */

    //digitalWrite(LED_PIN, !digitalRead(LED_PIN));

    // Ultrasonic output on Pin 3 for 4 seconds by DF
    tone(3,40000);
    delay(4000);
    noTone(3);

    Serial.println("Ultrasonic tone complete.");
    delay(100); //Allow for serial print to complete.

    // Audio tone output on Pin 4 for 0.5 seconds by DF
    tone(4,3000);
    delay(500);
    noTone(4);

    Serial.println("Audio tone output complete.");
    delay(100); //Allow for serial print to complete.

    /* carried out our commands clear the flag. */
    f_wdt = 0;

    /* flag cleared go back to sleep till next time */
    enterSleep();
    }

    else
    {
    /*do nothing*/
    }
    }
    John Wrennall
    John Wrennall
    AMS member


    Posts : 157
    Join date : 2011-11-16
    Age : 78
    Location : Leyland

    Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic Empty Re: Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic

    Post  John Wrennall Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:59 pm

    Hi David.

    Found this link for a "Sound Origin Direction Finder"

    http://www.best-microcontroller-projects.com/sound-origin-direction-finder.html

    Possibly a nice enhancement for your pinger if you can make sense of it, the article gave me a headache on the 1st read.

    John
    david f
    david f
    AMS Treasurer


    Posts : 2412
    Join date : 2010-11-10
    Age : 74
    Location : Cumbria

    Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic Empty Re: Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic

    Post  david f Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:37 am

    Hi John,

    An interesting approach, basically combining transducers and indicator lights on a "sort of indicator board."

    Using several transducers increases complexity and cost, though and you may as well make a small array of transducers - easier to lower into a pond and the indicator lights don't disappear into murky water (Alright I'm joking!)

    I am experimenting with putting my single transducer into a tube to increase the direction finding effect. Though it is not bad just "dangling" it in the water.

    Thanks!

    David
    david f
    david f
    AMS Treasurer


    Posts : 2412
    Join date : 2010-11-10
    Age : 74
    Location : Cumbria

    Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic Empty Re: Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic

    Post  david f Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:39 pm

    A bit of an update on the ultrasonic Pinger which you clip on the underside of your sub to enable location:

    Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic 20180610

    Basically putting it in a rather neater sealed enclosure (a PVC stop end from B & Q)

    The LHS is the standard ceramic buzzer which produces  the audio tone (and indicates that it is switched on).

    In the centre is the Arduino Pro Mini which produces the audio and ultrasonic tone. Fed by 2 x CR2032 batteries in line with a reed switch so a magnet turns if OFF. One of the tiny LEDs on the Arduino is removed (by scraping it with a hobby knife) to reduce the current draw. You can't see it but I also enclose a bit of ballast to make it less buoyant. (About 30g wrapped in clingfilm.)

    On the RHS is the ultrasonic "parking" type of transducer. This is glued to the end cap using "Devcon". The plastic tube provides the ability to leak test using air. I hope you like the 3D printed support for these 2 items!

    The dunking ultrasonic sensor is shown below:

    Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic 20180611


    The software is available from my GitHub site:

    https://github.com/rdforrest/submarine-proportional-pistontank

    You want the file named:

    Pinger_May_2018_copy.zip

    I think that the best bat detector to use with this is still the Magenta ones the assembled Mk 4 for £61 or the Mk 2 kit for £38.

    I had reason to do a bit of a revamp because my latest model (The British World War 1 submarine E11) got stuck on the bottom of the Bournville pond at the recent sub day.

    I went through the usual palpitations:

    - Where is it?
    - This is a very big pond to search before I go home!
    - Why is the water so cloudy?
    - Why did I forget to press the button on the openLRS module to set the failsafes!  etc etc.

    I brought out the trusty hydrophone amplifier and the bat detector with the dunking ultrasonic sensor and went all the way round the pond. No signal!

    Fortunately at this point the model  surfaced at the other end of the pond, having presumably unstuck itself from the mud.

    Relieved, I went home and tried to discover the cause of the problem.

    Basically, over familiarity had drifted in and I hadn't checked the equipment for some months.

    Both the ultrasonic sensors (transmitter and receiver had failed) They are not made very well, I think.

    I should have checked the range. You should be able to hear the ultrasonic pulse at about 10 feet distance in air.

    David
    avatar
    timgarrod
    AMS Website Webmaster


    Posts : 261
    Join date : 2013-04-23
    Age : 44

    Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic Empty Re: Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic

    Post  timgarrod Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:53 pm

    cheers David,

    Been using Scooterboy101 for long time. not the cheapest on ebay but least you can know the board all work and normally get them in a day or two.
    david f
    david f
    AMS Treasurer


    Posts : 2412
    Join date : 2010-11-10
    Age : 74
    Location : Cumbria

    Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic Empty Re: Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic

    Post  david f Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:45 pm

    I have been trying a couple of alternatives bat detectors to the Magenta one. The main aim being to find one that was cheaper, effective and maybe easier to build.

    The first one is this design which I found online. The Simple Bat Detector:
    http://home.earthlink.net/~bat-detector/BatDetector.html

    Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic 20180710

    It is a novel design using a frequency divider chip to make ultrasonic sounds audible to us. I built it in 2 forms - breadboard and stripboard.

    I couldn't get either to work at all well with either bats or submarines! It seems to lack sensitivity.

    LATER NOTE: (December 2019)

    I have just been having another look at this bat detector (It's winter - my time for electronics!) I realise that the 2 amplifier chips (LM386) I had fitted must have been damaged. I have fitted replacement ones and the sensitivity is much better. (Only tested in air so far.) So this design could well be worth using. It is simple and cheap and has no need for "tuning."

    The second one is the FRANZIS bat detector which seems to be widely available. I got mine from Amazon Prime for about £25. It is a nicely made small board which is mostly pre-assembled using surface mount components. Like the Magenta bat detector it uses a superhet design "beating" with the ultrasound to get a low frequency. It comes with a large box but I hope you like the smaller box I made with my 3D printer.
    It works nicely with the bats which flutter past our cottage.

    Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic 20180711

    I have just come back from testing this with my E11 sub at the Barrow pond. (Water very low in this hot weather.) It worked QUITE well but with a lot of extraneous sound (electrical interference?)

    So I suggest sticking with the Magenta.

    David


    Last edited by david f on Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
    david f
    david f
    AMS Treasurer


    Posts : 2412
    Join date : 2010-11-10
    Age : 74
    Location : Cumbria

    Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic Empty Re: Pinger 2 - Ultrasonic

    Post  david f Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:32 pm

    LATER NOTE: (December 2019)

    I have just been having another look at the Simple Bat detector (It's winter - my time for electronics!) I realise that the 2 amplifier chips (LM386) I had fitted must have been damaged. I have fitted replacement ones and the sensitivity is much better. (Only tested in air so far.) So this design could well be worth using. It is simple and cheap and has no need for "tuning."

    Sorry to the original designer for my mistake.

    David

      Current date/time is Wed Oct 30, 2024 10:51 am