Not the hobby I expected :)

Hello. I think I've decided I want to be a submariner at least once in my life.
I did some reading around and decided I want to experiment building a 'simple' WTC basically containing radio, a peristaltic pump, and a latex balloon to see what it takes to make: sub go down; sub go up. I have a 3d printer so I think I should be able to make ABS end-caps and some modular internals. Propulsion later, I thought.

This all being well I started looking at radio, because I've been in 2.4GHz land and didn't know about this *water* stuff. Turns out this isn't a boat hobby at all is it? It's a radio hobby!

I *think* I want to go along the turnigy x9r + 433Mhz modules route, but I don't know how to set up the build to re-flash them to 458Mhz. I have re-flashed my 3d printer brain though so I assume it's not a dissimilar process.

So, hi. I'm cat. Total newbie and quite intimidated by the radio proposition :)

Welcome Cat and welcome to the intimidated!

Like why is everything so difficult underwater??

The radio proposition is not easy because we are running out of options for commercial radio gear.

If you already have 433Mhz equipment, I think I would stick with that for a bit. (Assuming you are from the UK, we are lucky that we have a legal channel on 458Mhz.)

David

What I'm a bit short on is what wires I need to plug into the OrangeRX stuff, and in fact where the plug is. Also how to build the source to tell it to be 458 not 433 and there's something about an ID which needs to be unique or they'll fight with other robots?

I have a tube in the mail, I have printed a test end cap which I have parametrically modelled so I can easily tweak it. I've had an educated guess at orings, picked up some threaded rod and nuts, and a seawolf turned up today as well.

12 bladed prop?! gosh. Now I have the kit i can take some measurements off it and try and source some driveline gear.
motors and gearboxes... soooo muuuucchhh to learn :)

what you need for the firmware updates on the hobbyking/orangerx devices are some pins soldered to both the TX module pcb and RX pcb, so that you can connect one of these:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222727769676?epid=8010050952&hash=item33db9c0e4c:g:5bcAAOSwZW5aFB08

or one of these:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264206118002?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item3d83e96c72:g:-uEAAOSw-Slg6PcR&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAAA8PiqHeSbc%2FjnngAKaoDg9saD5pJUhCgbcQ%2BvkoF4xcRSvsKVuU9tDuLy95Q4o4oodtHkOMWeJ5hAAIBconJGlj4FbIY950znLft7w%2FXKivTI6v6IeSnYhbG4tXQBal6LS9UzoJ0UXuN59joQVBGvVpCwuMlXkldHOsYSGQ%2BZIhCUOlElP0yLal%2Fb%2F2zty1arFrNqcoAqiifDXxA24H6XDCJM8ttxj26gMrc%2FgZXL%2FSNaHBJ2BR5767I%2B5sUFpIW3sfPBbOPloa3l4FF0CpHOK6KgvSWBSr5jwnNRrdUIN%2FEQDbLOmU1VKeMSUkf16hxPEQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMzLzZqfhf

they are basically the same thing, they convert from your computer's usb to the arduino's serial pins, they are just two different manufacturer's models, kind of like lotus vs jaguar.

the openlrsng website gives a pretty good indication of where you will need to solder things to the pcb's:
https://github.com/openLRSng/openLRSngWiki/wiki/Hardware-Guide


and finally, all the firmware changes are done with the configurator and the google chrome web browser:
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/openlrsng-configurator/focgpgmpinbadijfcdimbdkgnpndjnkl?hl=en


you really don't need to recompile firmware, just update to a current version of the firmware, and change some settings.  it sounds worse than it is.


the most difficult part of this is making sure the hardware you bought actually works.
second is getting the pins soldered to the right spots on the OrangeRX pcb's.

once that is done, you are golden.

years ago, i made a few videos explaining the configurator, not sure how useful you will find them, but on my youtube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCL_1eC-FviM4R00iePJUbBA/videos

search for "chiplrs" in the videos...  i think there are 3 "episodes"





as to any questions....    ask!   i am sure either myself or David can answer them...  and we are happy to see you join the OpenLRSng club...

Thanks for those links @tsenecal!

I've not made much progress on anything. Pump and radio still haven't shown up.

I've mainly been playing at amateur CAD and 3d printing internal bracketry for parts that have and haven't shown up.
I had a moment when I thought the dive pump wouldn't fit between the compression rods for the WTC but I think I've got everything to fit, I'll know when the real pump surfaces. 46mm ID is NOT a lot of space but a 2200mAh 3s battery will squeeze down it, I'm not sure I'll need that much power though and a 1000mAh battery would take up much much less length.

I've found out that a relatively local boat club has a shallow wadeable pond AND has submariner members so I'm going to shamble along one weekend soon and say hi.

I've also belatedly finally understood that i COULD have been working in an 80mm tube not a 50mm which would be cavernous in comparison, lol. Aot sure whether to order a larger tube and scale up, or persevere with the cramped version.

I'm not sure what I bought and if it's the wrong thing. seems to want to work with an APM?



a bit frustrating because the 9 channel RX modules that I suspect I'd understand don't seem to exist anymore. Hrm :(

Things are looking gently down (up being not what we're trying to do with a sub so much)
I don't really know what that usb dingle is for, I see references to bumping firmware with it.
It comes up as a pl2303 converter in dmesg which looks like a serial convertor. openLRSng doesn't want to use it for anything anyway.




I've ordered the second of your links, tsenecal. I'm a bit nervous that it can do 3.3 and 5v but on different pins, so I'm not sure if the logic on the tx and rx pins will be 5v regardless. I have a scope though so I can probably find out. I believe we don't want 5v on ANY pins right?

One thing I need to learn soon which I don't understand is 'dive controller' what is one of those and what are examples of them? I was planning to use a 3 way switch on the tx for 'fill bladder' 'empty bladder' and mid position for 'stop doing either' what does a dive controller do beyond that switching?

oh the radio 'works' i powered it up briefly and it wiggled a servo and then i turned it off so I hope ofcom won't come for me.

the usb dongle is for upgrading the firmware.  you will want to upgrade the firmware.  long story short, the stock hobby king/orangerx software sucks.

you are correct, all the 433/458mhz equipment uses 3.3v, so we do not want 5v anywhere.


one other note of warning that may be too late, but NEVER run the RX or TX without the antenna.


a "dive controller" may be one of three things...

a ballast tank controller, which is basically a smart speed control for the ballast tank, and simple ones provide exactly what you describe.

a "depth controller"  is a more sophisticated device that actually figures out what depth you want to be at (using a rotary knob on the TX usually) and by using a pressure sensor, allows you to basically decide what depth you want the sub to be at.

a "pitch controller" is a device similar to a gyro on a helicopter,  it keeps the sub on an even keel as you are driving the sub forwards or reverse. it will not do anything if the sub is sitting still. it is designed to stabilize the pitch of the sub so you don't have to worry about keeping a constant "dynamic" depth while the sub is moving.  use the ballast tank controller to get the depth you want, then the pitch controller keeps it even and stable at that depth.

the most sophisticated subs will use both a depth controller and a pitch controller together to have a consistently obtainable constant depth no matter what the sub is doing.

Hmm, I have no idea how that usb dongle could do firmware, but it doesn't matter because a usb-uart thingy showed up.
With some nerves I scoped it out and prodded it with a meter and I couldn't find anything over 3.3V on any pins other than the 5V pin which I studiously ignored.

Obviously I have no clue what firmware is on the tx units as they're from ebay, but clicking 'connect' on the openlrsng thingy got a reply of a unit id or something but no connection.
I went and smashed the firmware button, guessing which item from the drop down was the right choice and clicked to flash it, which it did successfully.
a wee clicky of 'connect' later and to my surprise:


so I think all I need to do now is bind that to the RX and reconfigure that to 458MHz too. Thanks for the advice about this.

Oh luckily I already knew to leave the antenna connected so we're fine there.

Is this the sort of thing I'm looking for for a dive controller? https://www.mr-rcworld.co.uk/shop/dive-pump-controller/

I'm sort of trying to start simple with just an ATC which sinks and resurfaces and I'll move on to drive system and control planes later. This is a lot to absorb.

cat,

first, you seem to be doing well with this. so far your instincts have been "correct".

the link to the dive controller is the device that gives "sink/stop/rise" for your ballast tank. you can buy the cheaper "standard" model without the failsafe. the 458mhz equipment comes with a much better failsafe mechanism built into it.

What I can't find currently for love, money, or frantic prayer of any kind is: WHAT TWO THINGS TO CONNECT TOGETHER ON THE RX TO MAKE IT GO BIND MODE GRRRRRRRR
hahaha, can you help?

cat wrote:What I can't find currently for love, money, or frantic prayer of any kind is: WHAT TWO THINGS TO CONNECT TOGETHER ON THE RX TO MAKE IT GO BIND MODE GRRRRRRRR
hahaha, can you help?

this is a video i made describing that exact function:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50mAgYoCL7M

apologies, i wasn't confident that would work for me because i have 'different' hardware, but it's probably the same stuff relabelled?

I need to flash the RX firts the same way i did the TX though right? with the ftdi wired up to its pins.

cat wrote:apologies, i wasn't confident that would work for me because i have 'different' hardware, but it's probably the same stuff relabelled?

I need to flash the RX firts the same way i did the TX though right? with the ftdi wired up to its pins.

the Receiver and Transmitter module have to be using the same version of the firmware before they will bind. and all OpenLRSng products basically work the same way.

Thank you for your patient assistance. TX and RX are updated, binding was easy and it's now working on 458MHz and wiggling a servo.

The TX is a bluetooth version, but sadly the chrome app doesn't seem to like using the bluetooth connection, I note the BT module in the unit doesn't connect to the DTR pin, so perhaps that's why.

Next steps for me, working out what speed controller I want to use so I can power the rx inside the WTC and carry on with the cad to print a new shell for my peristaltic pump to fit inside the tiny space in the 50mm tube :P (I really should move to 80mm considering there IS that much room in a seawolf shell)

cat wrote:Thank you for your patient assistance. TX and RX are updated, binding was easy and it's now working on 458MHz and wiggling a servo.

The TX is a bluetooth version, but sadly the chrome app doesn't seem to like using the bluetooth connection, I note the BT module in the unit doesn't connect to the DTR pin, so perhaps that's why.

Next steps for me, working out what speed controller I want to use so I can power the rx inside the WTC and carry on with the cad to print a new shell for my peristaltic pump to fit inside the tiny space in the 50mm tube :P (I really should move to 80mm considering there IS that much room in a seawolf shell)

glad to hear you have the radio sorted out...

i presume you are talking about the trumpeter 1/144 seawolf?   go for the 80mm WTC, your fingers will appreciate trying to fit stuff into the bigger WTC.

there are a ton of small 10-15amp brushed ESCs available on ebay. get one without a brake.

It's been a while, but I'm BACK!

I've been restoring a couple of motorbikes, but now it's cold I'm indoors with the cad/cam.

I've just taken delivery of a 70mm id tube and I have some PETG filament to print more water resistant things with.

I'm hoping that by end of year I can get a radio controlled sinking resurfacing tube working.

The one thing bothering me is sourcing "70mm" orings, because specifying these things is beyond me. Would anyone on the forum have any simple rules i can use to find orings for this or links to what I could use to get started?

I'm excited to be submarinering again :)

cat.

I've been printing a bit with PETG and have got a single endcap and some silicone o-rings arrived.

I clamped the endcap into the tube with threaded rod and an oring under each nylock nut.



I stuck in in the sink for about half an hour:



and no water fell in, I'm just printing another endcap with a hole in it i can JB weld a bike valve into so i can fully submerge the tube and put some pressure in it to look for bubbles.

I have no idea how MUCH pressure though, so wait for posts about polycarbonate explosions.

LOL, just a breath, no need to turn purple while testing or explode the polycarbonate tube.

No shock to anyone, but printed parts may be water proof but they’re not air tight. There’s nothing for it but to ‘invest’ in a lathe.

I rechecked my radio gear and it’s in working order so I can continue to outfit the electrical innards whilst working out caps which currently seem the hardest bits. I could resin cast from my printed forms which would be a lot cheaper than a lathe. But lathes!

It is annoying that 3D parts are not air tight.
I have seen references from people painting them with resin and wiping them with solvent but I have no idea if this works.
I have carefully used a gas lighter on small deck 3D PLA printed fittings to "de-hair" them. (It produces a shiny surface.)

david f wrote:It is annoying that 3D parts are not air tight.
I have seen references from people painting them with resin and wiping them with solvent but I have no idea if this works.
I have carefully used a gas lighter on small deck 3D PLA printed fittings to "de-hair" them. (It produces a shiny surface.)

Slight correction:

Resin printed parts are airtight.

i printed the Bayonet locking mechanism for my experimental sub with a UV-Resin printer (Elegoo Saturn) and it works well.

But you need to use a "non-brittle" resin.

Resin is water tight. I use it on my WTCs. Also on a Saturn by Elegy. I use the fast grey resin from Siraya. It is brittle, if I drop an end cap it will chip. That being said, I will be working on mixing a couple of different resins to make less brittle pieces. As a side note, my gears (in my piston ballast system) are the resin fast grey and are holding up well (so far).

Give Siraya Blu a try, it is less brittle than the fast resin.

Bayonet, Endcaps and outer hull with Siraya Blu on both the Alfa & the orange sub

So you’re printing these on a resin printer? The UV photo type anycubic style stuff?

What kind of print duration are they?

Thanks for the suggests