glad to hear you have got your range where you want it. sad to hear about the FLD-02 display being no longer made, but it was inevitable. FrSky has moved to the Taranis and its associated "S-Port" devices, guess you will have to save a little more money for a taranis :) or build a FLD-02 replacement if yours ever dies. that shouldn't be too difficult. the library we use in building the telemetry hub tells us everything we need to know to build one using a graphic LCD panel, an arduino and a couple push buttons.... just a thought.
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UHF radio control for submarines (openLRS, LoRa, FSK etc. on 458Mhz and 433Mhz )
tsenecal- Guest
- Posts : 322
Join date : 2015-04-01
David,
glad to hear you have got your range where you want it. sad to hear about the FLD-02 display being no longer made, but it was inevitable. FrSky has moved to the Taranis and its associated "S-Port" devices, guess you will have to save a little more money for a taranis :) or build a FLD-02 replacement if yours ever dies. that shouldn't be too difficult. the library we use in building the telemetry hub tells us everything we need to know to build one using a graphic LCD panel, an arduino and a couple push buttons.... just a thought.
glad to hear you have got your range where you want it. sad to hear about the FLD-02 display being no longer made, but it was inevitable. FrSky has moved to the Taranis and its associated "S-Port" devices, guess you will have to save a little more money for a taranis :) or build a FLD-02 replacement if yours ever dies. that shouldn't be too difficult. the library we use in building the telemetry hub tells us everything we need to know to build one using a graphic LCD panel, an arduino and a couple push buttons.... just a thought.
david f- AMS Treasurer
- Posts : 2412
Join date : 2010-11-10
Age : 74
Location : Cumbria
Some photos of the Telemetry hubs in 2 of my models. They are based on the nice and small Arduino Pro Micro.
The first photo is the original setup in my Holland. This was a modified wifi switch which gave a low battery voltage signal. It was PIC based and a little bulky.
This is the Hobbyking RX with the Pro Micro stuck to its back.
The back of the RX:
This is the more capable Telemetry hub for my larger subs. This sends battery voltage, current draw, depth and compass heading.
The back of the Pro Micro showing the compass sensor board.
The Arduino Pro Micro
These are both done using Tim S's software and construction details shown over on the SubPirates Forum:
http://www.subpirates.com/showthread.php?5271-Custom-Frsky-Telemetry-Hub/page9
The first photo is the original setup in my Holland. This was a modified wifi switch which gave a low battery voltage signal. It was PIC based and a little bulky.
This is the Hobbyking RX with the Pro Micro stuck to its back.
The back of the RX:
This is the more capable Telemetry hub for my larger subs. This sends battery voltage, current draw, depth and compass heading.
The back of the Pro Micro showing the compass sensor board.
The Arduino Pro Micro
These are both done using Tim S's software and construction details shown over on the SubPirates Forum:
http://www.subpirates.com/showthread.php?5271-Custom-Frsky-Telemetry-Hub/page9
david f- AMS Treasurer
- Posts : 2412
Join date : 2010-11-10
Age : 74
Location : Cumbria
A pm from Fred E (Deep Diver) which I am re-posting because I don't know the answer. Anyone?
Fred wants to move to openLRS but apparently the Hobbyking RXs are out of stock, at the moment, and he wants to know if the Flytron receiver will work with other TX modules, specifically the Turnigy 9xr pro. (I wonder if he could also think about other openLRS RXs?)
The detail of his message below:
"in the message I asked for your opinion on the Flytron receiver as the one from Hobbyking is still out of stock, I have read all the spec and to me they look the same.
I went with the Turning 9xr pro as used one of the first one's at work when on of our eng's used it for his home made drone, also I can get a 2,4 module if I decide to go with a 2.4 system for my surface boats."
David
Fred wants to move to openLRS but apparently the Hobbyking RXs are out of stock, at the moment, and he wants to know if the Flytron receiver will work with other TX modules, specifically the Turnigy 9xr pro. (I wonder if he could also think about other openLRS RXs?)
The detail of his message below:
"in the message I asked for your opinion on the Flytron receiver as the one from Hobbyking is still out of stock, I have read all the spec and to me they look the same.
I went with the Turning 9xr pro as used one of the first one's at work when on of our eng's used it for his home made drone, also I can get a 2,4 module if I decide to go with a 2.4 system for my surface boats."
David
tsenecal- Guest
- Posts : 322
Join date : 2015-04-01
David,
basically, anything on this list should work together:
https://github.com/openLRSng/openLRSngWiki/wiki/supported-hardware---feature-table
as long as the TX module and RX are flashed with compatible versions of the firmware, they should be able to talk to each other without issue.
I personally own the following brands:
TX modules:
OrangeRX futaba 100mw
OrangeRX futaba 1w
OrangeRX JR 1w
DTF-UHF JR 1 w
RX:
OrangeRX 9ch receiver
Brotronics 4ch remix
DTF-UHF/Hawkeye 1 watt long range receiver
DTF-UHF/Hawkeye 6 channel receiver
the only limitations i have encountered are the limitations imposed by the design of the device, for example, if you have s-bus output active on the Brotronics 4ch remix, you cannot have telemetry active (they use the same set of pins)
basically, anything on this list should work together:
https://github.com/openLRSng/openLRSngWiki/wiki/supported-hardware---feature-table
as long as the TX module and RX are flashed with compatible versions of the firmware, they should be able to talk to each other without issue.
I personally own the following brands:
TX modules:
OrangeRX futaba 100mw
OrangeRX futaba 1w
OrangeRX JR 1w
DTF-UHF JR 1 w
RX:
OrangeRX 9ch receiver
Brotronics 4ch remix
DTF-UHF/Hawkeye 1 watt long range receiver
DTF-UHF/Hawkeye 6 channel receiver
the only limitations i have encountered are the limitations imposed by the design of the device, for example, if you have s-bus output active on the Brotronics 4ch remix, you cannot have telemetry active (they use the same set of pins)
tsenecal- Guest
- Posts : 322
Join date : 2015-04-01
I have purchased the brotronics 4ch remix from this site, i will recommend them with one caveat, you need to watch them like any chinese reseller, sometimes they "forget" to send you things like tracking information, but so far they have delivered what i have ordered:
http://www.hobbiesfly.com/
they are listed as a preferred site on the openlrsng.org site, so that's why i went to them.
i noticed they have this receiver, which is "slightly better" than the OrangeRX 433 lrs receiver, but almost the same price, and is currently in stock:
http://www.hobbiesfly.com/transmitter-receiver/Receivers/hawkeye-9-channel-receiver.html
one note: this receiver does not come stock with an antenna, so you will have to make one yourself, or buy one, the same site does sell those as well.
http://www.hobbiesfly.com/
they are listed as a preferred site on the openlrsng.org site, so that's why i went to them.
i noticed they have this receiver, which is "slightly better" than the OrangeRX 433 lrs receiver, but almost the same price, and is currently in stock:
http://www.hobbiesfly.com/transmitter-receiver/Receivers/hawkeye-9-channel-receiver.html
one note: this receiver does not come stock with an antenna, so you will have to make one yourself, or buy one, the same site does sell those as well.
david f- AMS Treasurer
- Posts : 2412
Join date : 2010-11-10
Age : 74
Location : Cumbria
Thanks Tim! Great answer.
Over to you, Fred!
David
Over to you, Fred!
David
Deep Diver (Fred)- AMS member
- Posts : 270
Join date : 2010-11-07
Age : 76
Location : Peacehaven East Sussex
Hi
Thank you all for the info, I will be having a look at all the links and then take it from there.
Thank you all for the info, I will be having a look at all the links and then take it from there.
tsenecal- Guest
- Posts : 322
Join date : 2015-04-01
there appears to be a new manufacturer that is making a setup for JR style modules and receivers:
"Wolfbox"
http://www.banggood.com/Wolfbox-1000mW-1W-433MHz-UHF-Transmitter-Tx-100mW-Receiver-Rx-Compatible-with-X9D-X12S-9XR-TH9X-p-1051206.html
this is the only listing i have seen so far, and it doesn't allow you to buy just a RX, only available product is this combo setup. good for a beginner that wants to try "433", but bad for those of us that simply want to grab a couple RX.
don't know yet if i want to order this or not.
"Wolfbox"
http://www.banggood.com/Wolfbox-1000mW-1W-433MHz-UHF-Transmitter-Tx-100mW-Receiver-Rx-Compatible-with-X9D-X12S-9XR-TH9X-p-1051206.html
this is the only listing i have seen so far, and it doesn't allow you to buy just a RX, only available product is this combo setup. good for a beginner that wants to try "433", but bad for those of us that simply want to grab a couple RX.
don't know yet if i want to order this or not.
Deep Diver (Fred)- AMS member
- Posts : 270
Join date : 2010-11-07
Age : 76
Location : Peacehaven East Sussex
I have had an email from HobbyKing saying that the OrangeRx Open LRS 433MHz 9Ch Receiver is now back in stock,
tsenecal- Guest
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Join date : 2015-04-01
Deep Diver (Fred) wrote:I have had an email from HobbyKing saying that the OrangeRx Open LRS 433MHz 9Ch Receiver is now back in stock,
either they got 1 in stock and immediately sold it, or there was a huge backlog of pent-up demand. I looked about 6 hours after you posted this, and they were already out of stock again.
david f- AMS Treasurer
- Posts : 2412
Join date : 2010-11-10
Age : 74
Location : Cumbria
That's bad news!
I've just ordered another couple of Rx's on backorder to encourage them to keep on making the lovely things!
I will post up on here when I get them. (Supposed to be 30 days for a backorder, let's see.)
David
I've just ordered another couple of Rx's on backorder to encourage them to keep on making the lovely things!
I will post up on here when I get them. (Supposed to be 30 days for a backorder, let's see.)
David
Deep Diver (Fred)- AMS member
- Posts : 270
Join date : 2010-11-07
Age : 76
Location : Peacehaven East Sussex
I have just had a look at the International site and it is saying ten in stock,
I still have 15 day's before the 30 day's are up for delivery so fingers crossed and it come soon.
I still have 15 day's before the 30 day's are up for delivery so fingers crossed and it come soon.
david f- AMS Treasurer
- Posts : 2412
Join date : 2010-11-10
Age : 74
Location : Cumbria
I have just had a email from Hobbyking saying that my order has just been posted.
(Maybe there are no supply problems? I will post on here when I actually get my hot little hands on the Rxs.)
David
(Maybe there are no supply problems? I will post on here when I actually get my hot little hands on the Rxs.)
David
david f- AMS Treasurer
- Posts : 2412
Join date : 2010-11-10
Age : 74
Location : Cumbria
The two Hobbyking RXs I ordered arrived on 6/10/2016.
So ordered on 14/9/2016 that's about 22 days so not bad for the back order system.
So it is good to see that Hobbyking are still a good and low-cost supplier.
Without suppliers we would be back to the original problem we have with 40Mhz.
David
So ordered on 14/9/2016 that's about 22 days so not bad for the back order system.
So it is good to see that Hobbyking are still a good and low-cost supplier.
Without suppliers we would be back to the original problem we have with 40Mhz.
David
tsenecal- Guest
- Posts : 322
Join date : 2015-04-01
so,
much like the 458mhz frequency in britain, the 915mhz frequency has fewer restrictions on it than the 433mhz i have been playing with. It also appears to be the only frequency available for use of any kind in canada. knowing that the HopeRF frequency chips on these devices actually are available at 433mhz, 868mhz, and 915mhz, i have been trying for 2 years now to find someone that makes a 915mhz version of the OpenLRS TX modules and receivers. I have tried to simply "convert" an existing 433mhz set to 915mhz, but so far haven't had any luck. I was about to make my own DIY set using an arduino and some discrete components, but two manufacturers now sell 915mhz versions. I have received and tested a set sold by OrangeRX (hobbyking). It is very much designed for Multi-rotor aircraft... to the point where it is set from the factory to only handle telemetry coming from a specific brand of Multi-rotor main control unit, and it is designed from a hardware angle to only send PPM data to an MCU. there are no servo connections on the receiver. knowing all this, i was still able to connect a PPM to PWM converter board so that i could hook up standard servos, and tested it for the first time today in my Delta submarine. I did order the second set of TX and RX from the other manufacturer, and they are due to arrive in 3 weeks...
you can see from the following youtube link, that basic telemetry is still being collected by the TX module, because it "beeps" when packets are lost, and at times, it is beeping at a very high rate. I would guess that i am running the Delta at a depth of 6" to 12", which means that 915mhz is not nearly as good as the 433/458 frequency, but is still much better than 2.4ghz. Also note that i am using the bone stock OrangeRX antennas, which appear to be identical to their 433mhz antennas, which can't be good. more testing on that needs to be done.
the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3GXisx5150
the link to the hobbyking equipment...
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/orangerx-openlrsng-915mhz-system-bt-tx-rx-combo.html
note that it is available in both 433mhz and 915mhz, and that it has bluetooth capability... this might be a choice for the brits who want elaborate telemetry, using this android app on a tablet or phone, displaying telemetry in a much more defined way than the now impossible to find FLD-02 display. reflashing this new 433mhz TX module with standard openlrsng firmware should allow it to work with the existing 433mhz receivers, but also give you the bluetooth capability... also something to look into.
much like the 458mhz frequency in britain, the 915mhz frequency has fewer restrictions on it than the 433mhz i have been playing with. It also appears to be the only frequency available for use of any kind in canada. knowing that the HopeRF frequency chips on these devices actually are available at 433mhz, 868mhz, and 915mhz, i have been trying for 2 years now to find someone that makes a 915mhz version of the OpenLRS TX modules and receivers. I have tried to simply "convert" an existing 433mhz set to 915mhz, but so far haven't had any luck. I was about to make my own DIY set using an arduino and some discrete components, but two manufacturers now sell 915mhz versions. I have received and tested a set sold by OrangeRX (hobbyking). It is very much designed for Multi-rotor aircraft... to the point where it is set from the factory to only handle telemetry coming from a specific brand of Multi-rotor main control unit, and it is designed from a hardware angle to only send PPM data to an MCU. there are no servo connections on the receiver. knowing all this, i was still able to connect a PPM to PWM converter board so that i could hook up standard servos, and tested it for the first time today in my Delta submarine. I did order the second set of TX and RX from the other manufacturer, and they are due to arrive in 3 weeks...
you can see from the following youtube link, that basic telemetry is still being collected by the TX module, because it "beeps" when packets are lost, and at times, it is beeping at a very high rate. I would guess that i am running the Delta at a depth of 6" to 12", which means that 915mhz is not nearly as good as the 433/458 frequency, but is still much better than 2.4ghz. Also note that i am using the bone stock OrangeRX antennas, which appear to be identical to their 433mhz antennas, which can't be good. more testing on that needs to be done.
the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3GXisx5150
the link to the hobbyking equipment...
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/orangerx-openlrsng-915mhz-system-bt-tx-rx-combo.html
note that it is available in both 433mhz and 915mhz, and that it has bluetooth capability... this might be a choice for the brits who want elaborate telemetry, using this android app on a tablet or phone, displaying telemetry in a much more defined way than the now impossible to find FLD-02 display. reflashing this new 433mhz TX module with standard openlrsng firmware should allow it to work with the existing 433mhz receivers, but also give you the bluetooth capability... also something to look into.
bwi- AMS member
- Posts : 81
Join date : 2015-01-17
Location : Belgium
Hi Tim,
I learned a new expression a few day's back that is apropriate to use here.
This again is some first class "yeoman's work".
You keep pushing this stuff to new levels and are willing to share it too.
Respect Tim.
Grtz,
Bart
I learned a new expression a few day's back that is apropriate to use here.
This again is some first class "yeoman's work".
You keep pushing this stuff to new levels and are willing to share it too.
Respect Tim.
Grtz,
Bart
tsenecal- Guest
- Posts : 322
Join date : 2015-04-01
Bart, thanks for the compliment...
at times i wonder if the model submarine community has gotten soft over the years, there doesn't really appear to be any more individuals out there that are willing to spend the time and energy to try new things. they all seem to want museum quality boats that are ready to run right out of the box, or are unwilling to look outside their little walled community and see what the rest of the hobby has already done, and try to make it work here.
i wish i was better at SMD level soldering... perhaps with a little more practice, i might be able to accomplish some of these things on my own... i have been wanting to try the 915mhz stuff for as long as i have been using the 433mhz stuff. I knew it was possible, but my feeble skills at removing the 433mhz components limited my testing until manufacturers were willing to sell it.
there are others out there making there own DIY circuit boards and RF modules from discrete components. I may end up using their designs and making my own equipment if the next batch of transmitters and receivers are as limited as these 915mhz parts i just tested. i will know more soon.
at times i wonder if the model submarine community has gotten soft over the years, there doesn't really appear to be any more individuals out there that are willing to spend the time and energy to try new things. they all seem to want museum quality boats that are ready to run right out of the box, or are unwilling to look outside their little walled community and see what the rest of the hobby has already done, and try to make it work here.
i wish i was better at SMD level soldering... perhaps with a little more practice, i might be able to accomplish some of these things on my own... i have been wanting to try the 915mhz stuff for as long as i have been using the 433mhz stuff. I knew it was possible, but my feeble skills at removing the 433mhz components limited my testing until manufacturers were willing to sell it.
there are others out there making there own DIY circuit boards and RF modules from discrete components. I may end up using their designs and making my own equipment if the next batch of transmitters and receivers are as limited as these 915mhz parts i just tested. i will know more soon.
david f- AMS Treasurer
- Posts : 2412
Join date : 2010-11-10
Age : 74
Location : Cumbria
You are right, Tim! The problem is that most model submariners are a bit elderly and are reluctant to learn new technology.
Maybe the "investment" isn't seen as worth it for the few years you have left!
Personally I am so impressed by what microprocessors can do nowadays. When I think how much I paid for a single transistor in my teens. Now you get millions in a tiny package. Software rather than hardware is actually much easier in my view.
Interesting that you are looking at 915Mhz. A quick check indicates that we don't have that for r/c in the UK. I count ourselves lucky that someone way back allocated 458Mhz.
David
Maybe the "investment" isn't seen as worth it for the few years you have left!
Personally I am so impressed by what microprocessors can do nowadays. When I think how much I paid for a single transistor in my teens. Now you get millions in a tiny package. Software rather than hardware is actually much easier in my view.
Interesting that you are looking at 915Mhz. A quick check indicates that we don't have that for r/c in the UK. I count ourselves lucky that someone way back allocated 458Mhz.
David
tsenecal- Guest
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Join date : 2015-04-01
david f wrote:
Interesting that you are looking at 915Mhz. A quick check indicates that we don't have that for r/c in the UK. I count ourselves lucky that someone way back allocated 458Mhz.
David
I am investigating the 915mhz equipment because in the north american region (USA and Canada), it does not require the Ham Technicians license that the 433mhz equipment does. one of the excuses many of the people who refuse to use 433mhz claim as a hindrance. its kind of like the 458mhz block in the UK. I would have tried it first, but nobody has made commercial OpenLRS hardware using it until now*. Canada specifically does not allow use of 433mhz outside of medical/emergency equipment, so for canadians, 915mhz would be their only available option...
*there is one company called TBS that has made a system called "Crossfire" for over a year now, which uses 915mhz, but a simple Transmitter module and receiver combo from them is almost $300, versus the $80 (including shipping) i paid for the OrangeRX 915mhz openLRSng combo set i bought for these tests. It is also a proprietary protocol with zero support from anyone outside of TBS, and TBS will not warrant its use for anything but aircraft.
tsenecal- Guest
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Join date : 2015-04-01
the second set of 915mhz R/C gear has arrived... two weeks ahead of schedule... which bodes well for this seller.
it is a brand known as "ChipLRS", not sure of its pedigree, but ran across it on the OpenLRSng thread on rcgroups.com, when i complained there that nobody sold stuff on 915mhz... the russian ebay seller i bought this from sent me a PM saying that they were more than happy to make them in 915mhz versions...
the transmitter module and receiver did not come with antennas, so i will be making some for myself, i will be attempting to build dipole antennas for these, i have space for what will end up being about 7.5 cm on a side, with the two sides being parallel, so the whole antenna will be about 15cm long.. for those that don't speak metric, that would be about 6" long. more than small enough to fit inside my Delta's WTC, or hanging off the back of the transmitter. I am building dipole antennas because they supposedly have better output. I will test them with both the OrangeRX equipment and the ChipLRS equipment. the ChipLRS equipment is more like the traditional 433mhz equipment than the OrangeRX, but it still has its oddities. I will need to make a small breadboard converter that allows me to attach standard servos to the receiver. it is simply a converter that switches from the limited pinouts on the receiver to the more traditional servo style connectors... the ChipLRS receiver only has two 5v and GND pins, instead of one pair for each servo. It also has all the pins for basic telemetry and battery voltage to get returned to the transmitter, so i will be able to test this with the simplest of tools... the actual RSSI/TSSI values returned by the telemetry. the OrangeRX 915mhz receiver is made to fit in a multi-rotor, with an APM-flight control module, so it has a SINGLE pin that spits out PPM or s-bus... i had to use a PPM to PWM converter to use that receiver in the initial testing, and had now documentation stating how to set up telemetry... which by default the OrangeRX 915mhz equipment is set up to use MAVLINK style telemetry which is again, used in the multi-rotors, but nowhere else....
Hopefully this ChipLRS stuff will work out better than the OrangeRX stuff did.
it is a brand known as "ChipLRS", not sure of its pedigree, but ran across it on the OpenLRSng thread on rcgroups.com, when i complained there that nobody sold stuff on 915mhz... the russian ebay seller i bought this from sent me a PM saying that they were more than happy to make them in 915mhz versions...
the transmitter module and receiver did not come with antennas, so i will be making some for myself, i will be attempting to build dipole antennas for these, i have space for what will end up being about 7.5 cm on a side, with the two sides being parallel, so the whole antenna will be about 15cm long.. for those that don't speak metric, that would be about 6" long. more than small enough to fit inside my Delta's WTC, or hanging off the back of the transmitter. I am building dipole antennas because they supposedly have better output. I will test them with both the OrangeRX equipment and the ChipLRS equipment. the ChipLRS equipment is more like the traditional 433mhz equipment than the OrangeRX, but it still has its oddities. I will need to make a small breadboard converter that allows me to attach standard servos to the receiver. it is simply a converter that switches from the limited pinouts on the receiver to the more traditional servo style connectors... the ChipLRS receiver only has two 5v and GND pins, instead of one pair for each servo. It also has all the pins for basic telemetry and battery voltage to get returned to the transmitter, so i will be able to test this with the simplest of tools... the actual RSSI/TSSI values returned by the telemetry. the OrangeRX 915mhz receiver is made to fit in a multi-rotor, with an APM-flight control module, so it has a SINGLE pin that spits out PPM or s-bus... i had to use a PPM to PWM converter to use that receiver in the initial testing, and had now documentation stating how to set up telemetry... which by default the OrangeRX 915mhz equipment is set up to use MAVLINK style telemetry which is again, used in the multi-rotors, but nowhere else....
Hopefully this ChipLRS stuff will work out better than the OrangeRX stuff did.
tsenecal- Guest
- Posts : 322
Join date : 2015-04-01
For anyone still following this thread, i have a little bit of news to report, and a completely off-topic tangent that kind of explains why it has been a month and a half since last posting any updates...
I have not been able to spend a lot of time testing the new ChipLRS receiver and transmitter for two reasons...
1) the Norbert Brüggen Delta that is my test mule has blown out its pump... i need to get some time to swap in the spare unit that i have, but this requires a small amount of "machining" since the spare is not identical to the original.
2) i got side-tracked with the construction of a new transmitter... r/c groups transmitter thread I will be using it the next time i test the 915mhz equipment in the Delta.
I did get time to test the ChipLRS 915mhz equipment once with the Delta before its pump died, and the equipment did work as well as it could given the limited testing i was able to perform... i did not get any video of the run, but i do like it better than the OrangeRX 915mhz equipment originally purchased. The ChipLRS equipment does work correctly, with zero alterations, with the standard configuration tools (configurator chrome browser app) after i get the Delta running, i hope to get the ChipLRS equipment running with telemetry.
I have not been able to spend a lot of time testing the new ChipLRS receiver and transmitter for two reasons...
1) the Norbert Brüggen Delta that is my test mule has blown out its pump... i need to get some time to swap in the spare unit that i have, but this requires a small amount of "machining" since the spare is not identical to the original.
2) i got side-tracked with the construction of a new transmitter... r/c groups transmitter thread I will be using it the next time i test the 915mhz equipment in the Delta.
I did get time to test the ChipLRS 915mhz equipment once with the Delta before its pump died, and the equipment did work as well as it could given the limited testing i was able to perform... i did not get any video of the run, but i do like it better than the OrangeRX 915mhz equipment originally purchased. The ChipLRS equipment does work correctly, with zero alterations, with the standard configuration tools (configurator chrome browser app) after i get the Delta running, i hope to get the ChipLRS equipment running with telemetry.
tsenecal- Guest
- Posts : 322
Join date : 2015-04-01
To continue with the ongoing testing of the 915mhz equipment, i have rebuilt the pump on the Delta test mule, i have "opened" my "submarine testing facility" (10' long horse trough) and have been able to test the ChipLRS transmitter module and receiver. the receiver required a small amount of hardware modification to allow me to use standard servos with it (it is mainly designed for multi-rotor use) but the modification was somewhat simple, i will post pictures here when able. In the testing, i was able to get the system to go the full 2 foot depth of the testing facility, so it seems to have reasonable range.
in addition, i have figured out how to setup my transmitter so that it can properly display the telemetry data coming back from the analog voltage sensors, as well as the RX and ground pin needed for the more advanced telemetry functions that plugging an arduino into the system would allow. I am already set for displaying main battery voltage, but should be able to display depth, temps, and RPM with a little more work.
an interesting development has occurred, FrSky has announced, but is not yet shipping a 900/868mhz transmitter module and receiver ( http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread.php?51594-FrSky-R9-R9M-module-900Mhz-(868Mhz-EU)-Long-range-system )that should be legal without major restriction or licensing for both Europe and USA. pricing and general availability has not yet been announced, but insiders claim $100 to $150 and late june as target pricing and timing. If it does actually come to be, i will definitely buy one of those for testing.
as it is, i plan on purchasing two more of the ChipLRS receivers for my two smaller submarines, these Russian gadgets actually perform well enough to go onto the second stage of testing.
in addition, i have figured out how to setup my transmitter so that it can properly display the telemetry data coming back from the analog voltage sensors, as well as the RX and ground pin needed for the more advanced telemetry functions that plugging an arduino into the system would allow. I am already set for displaying main battery voltage, but should be able to display depth, temps, and RPM with a little more work.
an interesting development has occurred, FrSky has announced, but is not yet shipping a 900/868mhz transmitter module and receiver ( http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread.php?51594-FrSky-R9-R9M-module-900Mhz-(868Mhz-EU)-Long-range-system )that should be legal without major restriction or licensing for both Europe and USA. pricing and general availability has not yet been announced, but insiders claim $100 to $150 and late june as target pricing and timing. If it does actually come to be, i will definitely buy one of those for testing.
as it is, i plan on purchasing two more of the ChipLRS receivers for my two smaller submarines, these Russian gadgets actually perform well enough to go onto the second stage of testing.
david f- AMS Treasurer
- Posts : 2412
Join date : 2010-11-10
Age : 74
Location : Cumbria
A horse trough is a new test tank to me, Tim!
I sort of hope that the 900 MHz equipment is not going to become the norm? (Because in the UK at least, 458 is very good for model submariners.)
I must qualify that by saying that I didn't see any more people using 458 at Bournville recently. People are just happy to carry on using 40 Mhz because they already have it and it works.
David
PS
Some notes I made on another thread which may help beginners to openLRS 458Mhz:
"The 3.3v Dongle is available from Sparkfun:
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9873
I wouldn't give up on openLRS. The equipment is quite cheap and very compact (with no soldering required) so buy it and have a play with it over the winter. You do need a PC or laptop and to be reasonably confident with them.
Remember that the equipment will work "out of the box" (On 433Mhz with an earlier version of openLRS) so have a play with it before you upload the more up to date software and set it for the UK legal frequency of 458 Mhz.
The guy that started the whole openLRS thing for model submarines (Tim S) has just posted a useful guide on Youtube."
I sort of hope that the 900 MHz equipment is not going to become the norm? (Because in the UK at least, 458 is very good for model submariners.)
I must qualify that by saying that I didn't see any more people using 458 at Bournville recently. People are just happy to carry on using 40 Mhz because they already have it and it works.
David
PS
Some notes I made on another thread which may help beginners to openLRS 458Mhz:
"The 3.3v Dongle is available from Sparkfun:
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9873
I wouldn't give up on openLRS. The equipment is quite cheap and very compact (with no soldering required) so buy it and have a play with it over the winter. You do need a PC or laptop and to be reasonably confident with them.
Remember that the equipment will work "out of the box" (On 433Mhz with an earlier version of openLRS) so have a play with it before you upload the more up to date software and set it for the UK legal frequency of 458 Mhz.
The guy that started the whole openLRS thing for model submarines (Tim S) has just posted a useful guide on Youtube."
Last edited by david f on Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
tsenecal- Guest
- Posts : 322
Join date : 2015-04-01
David,
a few things to add to this...
1) FrSky has now announced that they will be selling an 868/915mhz transmitter module and receiver for LRS... using the FrSky protocols, which allows for 16 channels, telemetry, and specific model ID. (RX will refuse to do anything if you have the wrong model selected on your transmitter) It has no ETA yet, but will be called the r9m (tx module) and r9 (receiver).
this will be using 868mhz for europe, 915mhz for USA/Canada... you will have to look and see if 868mhz is allowed in GB.
2) the ChipLRS parts have an advantage for the europeans.. 1) it is made by a guy in russia, so shipping is quicker/cheaper than from china. 2) his prices are reasonably cheap, $20 for a receiver, $65 for a TX/RX combo, not as cheap as OrangeRX, but cheaper than hawkeye. all of his equipment works with my ersky9x/openTX firmware based transmitters, so soldering a 3 pin connector to the receiver allows me to get full telemetry on the built in LCD display on the transmitter (and voice alerts based on telemetry triggers as well) even ordering his stuff off ebay, it arrives within 10 days, which is faster than the chinese.
3) you can order from the russian group with any of three frequency choices: 433/458mhz, 868mhz, or 915mhz... so even if you stay with the 458mhz, ChipLRS might be an option for you.
4) i have ordered a set of Nagoya 915mhz antennas for both the TX and the RX, these should show an improvement over the stock crappy antennas that all these things ship with off the shelf.
a few things to add to this...
1) FrSky has now announced that they will be selling an 868/915mhz transmitter module and receiver for LRS... using the FrSky protocols, which allows for 16 channels, telemetry, and specific model ID. (RX will refuse to do anything if you have the wrong model selected on your transmitter) It has no ETA yet, but will be called the r9m (tx module) and r9 (receiver).
this will be using 868mhz for europe, 915mhz for USA/Canada... you will have to look and see if 868mhz is allowed in GB.
2) the ChipLRS parts have an advantage for the europeans.. 1) it is made by a guy in russia, so shipping is quicker/cheaper than from china. 2) his prices are reasonably cheap, $20 for a receiver, $65 for a TX/RX combo, not as cheap as OrangeRX, but cheaper than hawkeye. all of his equipment works with my ersky9x/openTX firmware based transmitters, so soldering a 3 pin connector to the receiver allows me to get full telemetry on the built in LCD display on the transmitter (and voice alerts based on telemetry triggers as well) even ordering his stuff off ebay, it arrives within 10 days, which is faster than the chinese.
3) you can order from the russian group with any of three frequency choices: 433/458mhz, 868mhz, or 915mhz... so even if you stay with the 458mhz, ChipLRS might be an option for you.
4) i have ordered a set of Nagoya 915mhz antennas for both the TX and the RX, these should show an improvement over the stock crappy antennas that all these things ship with off the shelf.
david f- AMS Treasurer
- Posts : 2412
Join date : 2010-11-10
Age : 74
Location : Cumbria
A bit of an approaching winter "heads-up" on openLRS and my experiences.
Well I have been operating only on openLRS 458 Mhz since Spring 2015. My 40 Mhz gear has mostly been "raffled-off" at Club meetings!
openLRS is still rather thin on the ground at the various national meetings I have been to (Bournville, Norwich etc.) with a maximum of 2 people using it. So we haven't tested its ability to operate 30 sets on frequency-hopping all at once! But no need for crystals, peg-boards and the plaintive cry of "any one on Channel XX etc."
I have only been using the Hobbyking receivers, still available at about $15 (That's about £75 of your English Pounds - feeble joke!)
I have rationalised my use of Telemetry and I only use sensors for battery voltage and depth. I didn't find compass heading very useful or consistent - stray magnetic fields?? Battery voltage readout is a real boon if you are using Lipo batteries. It is the only reliable system I know of for subs.
This has reduced the "wiring loom" in the sub. The next photo shows the Arduino Nano used to handle the telemetry. Note only 5 wires.
The next 2 photos show the inside of my standard WTC with the telemetry board above the Hobbyking receiver:
I attach the Arduino sketch which works with this. ( I hope that Tim forgives my clumsy "hacksawing" of his software. The original software is on the SubPirates Forum https://www.subpirates.com/showthread.php?5271-Custom-Frsky-Telemetry-Hub/page4 )
The TX option is rather limited for use by others because I am using the FrSky LCD display on my Futaba T9CP . (This LCD display is no longer available but Tim points out that many Tx's have LCD telemetry displays built in.)
I am really pleased with this development thanks to Tim. It is not just a replacement for 40Mhz but it is a significant improvement. (BTW after my early experiments with different antennae I have gone back to the standard commercial ones - they are easily good enough.)
David
// FrSkyTelemetryLRS - Version: Latest
#include <FrSkyTelemetryLRS.h>
/*
FrSky Telemetry library LRS test
(c) Pawelsky 20150724
Not for commercial use
FrSkyTelemetry library modified to deal with LRS format (TTL level serial instead of FrSky format...
renamed to FrSkyTelemetryLRS
modifications by tim senecal
Working for voltage input (/2?) on A3 by David Forrest
A2 gives depth input from pressure sensor.Multiply reading by 3 to give mm of water approx,
Software from Page 4 of Subpirates
Improvements? - get actual battery voltage. Calibrate depth sensor. Aug 2017
*/
#include "FrSkyTelemetryLRS.h"
#define minraw 272.0
#define maxraw 1015.0
#define minreal 9.0
#define maxreal 158.0
//#define voltsdiv 84.81
//#define voltsdiv 102.40
#define voltsdiv 82.0 ; // was 67 by RDF for Holland lipo
FrSkyTelemetryLRS telemetry; // Create telemetry object
const int analogTemp1 = A0;
const int analogTemp2 = A1;
const int analogAmp = A2;
const int analogVolt = A3;
int mVperAmp = 66; // use 185 for 5A, 100 for 20A, and 66 for 30A
int ACSoffset = 2500; // offset to remove negative side of range
float amperes = 0;
float voltage = 0;
float actual_rpm = 0;
float calc_speed = 0;
float Temp1;
float Temp2;
float depth;
void setup()
{
// Configure the telemetry serial port
telemetry.begin(SERIAL_1);
Serial.begin(9600);
}
void loop()
{
actual_rpm = 3000;
calc_speed = 2.258;
amperes = calc_amperage_val();
voltage = calc_voltage_val();
telemetry.setFasData(amperes, // Current consumption in amps
voltage); // Battery voltage in volts
depth = amperes-180;
telemetry.setFgsData(depth); // Fuel level in percent - unsigned int16 - any value between 0 and 65535
// Set LiPo voltage sensor (FLVS) data (we use two sensors to simulate 8S battery
// (set Voltage source to Cells in menu to use this data for battery voltage)
float v1 = voltage/2;
//float v2 = voltage/2;
telemetry.setFlvsData(v1, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0); // Cell voltages in volts (cells 1-8). Cells 9-12 are not used in this example
// Set variometer sensor (FVAS) data
telemetry.setFvasData(depth); // Altitude in m (can be nevative)
// Set GPS data
float heading = 125.22;
telemetry.setGpsData(39.847993, -105.104269, // Latitude and longitude in degrees decimal (positive for N/E, negative for S/W)
depth, // Altitude in m (can be negative)
calc_speed, // Speed in m/s
heading, // Course over ground in degrees
15, 2, 19, // Date (year - 2000, month, day)
12, 00, 00); // Time (hour, minute, second) - will be affected by timezone setings in your radio
float accel_angle_x = 2.35;
float accel_angle_y = 4.25;
float accel_angle_z = 3.15;
telemetry.setTasData(accel_angle_x, // calculated x angle
accel_angle_y, // calculated y angle
accel_angle_z); // calculated z angle
// Set temperature sensor (TEMS) data, two temperatures T1 & T2
// Set temperature sensor (TEMS) data, two temperatures T1 & T2
Temp1 = calc_temp_val(analogTemp1);
Temp2 = calc_temp_val(analogTemp2);
telemetry.setTemsData(Temp1, // Temperature #1 in degrees Celsuis (can be negative)
Temp2); // Temperature #2 in degrees Celsuis (can be negative)
// Set RPM sensor (RPMS) data
// (set number of blades to 2 in telemetry menu to get correct rpm value)
telemetry.setRpmsData(actual_rpm); // Rotations per minute
// Send the telemetry data, note that the data will only be sent for sensors
// that had their data set at least once. Also it will only be set in defined
// time intervals, so not necessarily at every call to send() method.
telemetry.send();
delay(100); //delay for 1/10 of a second
}
float fmap (float x, float in_min, float in_max, float out_min, float out_max) {
return (x - in_min) * (out_max - out_min) / (in_max - in_min) + out_min;
}
float calc_temp_val(int analog_pin){
uint16_t raw_val;
float temp, raw_float;
temp = 0;
raw_val = analogRead(analog_pin);
// raw_val = 1023 - raw_val;
raw_float = raw_val;
temp = fmap(raw_val, minraw, maxraw, minreal, maxreal);
// Serial.print("raw temp: ");
// Serial.print(analog_pin);
// Serial.print(" ");
// Serial.println(raw_val);
return temp;
}
float calc_voltage_val(){
int RawValue = analogRead(analogVolt);
voltage = RawValue;
// Serial.print("raw volt: ");
// Serial.println(RawValue);
voltage = voltage / voltsdiv; // Gets you adjusted Volts
return voltage;
}
float calc_amperage_val(){
int RawValue = analogRead(analogAmp);
Serial.print("raw amps: ");
Serial.println(RawValue);
float mVoltage = RawValue;
mVoltage = mVoltage / 1024.0;
mVoltage = mVoltage * 5000; // Gets you mV 5000 is VCC for 5v arduino
Serial.print("mVolts: ");
Serial.println(mVoltage);
//Next 2 lines by RDF to output raw amps
//amperes = abs(((mVoltage - ACSoffset) / mVperAmp));
amperes = RawValue;
Serial.print("Input on A2: ");
Serial.println(amperes);
return amperes;
}
Well I have been operating only on openLRS 458 Mhz since Spring 2015. My 40 Mhz gear has mostly been "raffled-off" at Club meetings!
openLRS is still rather thin on the ground at the various national meetings I have been to (Bournville, Norwich etc.) with a maximum of 2 people using it. So we haven't tested its ability to operate 30 sets on frequency-hopping all at once! But no need for crystals, peg-boards and the plaintive cry of "any one on Channel XX etc."
I have only been using the Hobbyking receivers, still available at about $15 (That's about £75 of your English Pounds - feeble joke!)
I have rationalised my use of Telemetry and I only use sensors for battery voltage and depth. I didn't find compass heading very useful or consistent - stray magnetic fields?? Battery voltage readout is a real boon if you are using Lipo batteries. It is the only reliable system I know of for subs.
This has reduced the "wiring loom" in the sub. The next photo shows the Arduino Nano used to handle the telemetry. Note only 5 wires.
The next 2 photos show the inside of my standard WTC with the telemetry board above the Hobbyking receiver:
I attach the Arduino sketch which works with this. ( I hope that Tim forgives my clumsy "hacksawing" of his software. The original software is on the SubPirates Forum https://www.subpirates.com/showthread.php?5271-Custom-Frsky-Telemetry-Hub/page4 )
The TX option is rather limited for use by others because I am using the FrSky LCD display on my Futaba T9CP . (This LCD display is no longer available but Tim points out that many Tx's have LCD telemetry displays built in.)
I am really pleased with this development thanks to Tim. It is not just a replacement for 40Mhz but it is a significant improvement. (BTW after my early experiments with different antennae I have gone back to the standard commercial ones - they are easily good enough.)
David
// FrSkyTelemetryLRS - Version: Latest
#include <FrSkyTelemetryLRS.h>
/*
FrSky Telemetry library LRS test
(c) Pawelsky 20150724
Not for commercial use
FrSkyTelemetry library modified to deal with LRS format (TTL level serial instead of FrSky format...
renamed to FrSkyTelemetryLRS
modifications by tim senecal
Working for voltage input (/2?) on A3 by David Forrest
A2 gives depth input from pressure sensor.Multiply reading by 3 to give mm of water approx,
Software from Page 4 of Subpirates
Improvements? - get actual battery voltage. Calibrate depth sensor. Aug 2017
*/
#include "FrSkyTelemetryLRS.h"
#define minraw 272.0
#define maxraw 1015.0
#define minreal 9.0
#define maxreal 158.0
//#define voltsdiv 84.81
//#define voltsdiv 102.40
#define voltsdiv 82.0 ; // was 67 by RDF for Holland lipo
FrSkyTelemetryLRS telemetry; // Create telemetry object
const int analogTemp1 = A0;
const int analogTemp2 = A1;
const int analogAmp = A2;
const int analogVolt = A3;
int mVperAmp = 66; // use 185 for 5A, 100 for 20A, and 66 for 30A
int ACSoffset = 2500; // offset to remove negative side of range
float amperes = 0;
float voltage = 0;
float actual_rpm = 0;
float calc_speed = 0;
float Temp1;
float Temp2;
float depth;
void setup()
{
// Configure the telemetry serial port
telemetry.begin(SERIAL_1);
Serial.begin(9600);
}
void loop()
{
actual_rpm = 3000;
calc_speed = 2.258;
amperes = calc_amperage_val();
voltage = calc_voltage_val();
telemetry.setFasData(amperes, // Current consumption in amps
voltage); // Battery voltage in volts
depth = amperes-180;
telemetry.setFgsData(depth); // Fuel level in percent - unsigned int16 - any value between 0 and 65535
// Set LiPo voltage sensor (FLVS) data (we use two sensors to simulate 8S battery
// (set Voltage source to Cells in menu to use this data for battery voltage)
float v1 = voltage/2;
//float v2 = voltage/2;
telemetry.setFlvsData(v1, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0); // Cell voltages in volts (cells 1-8). Cells 9-12 are not used in this example
// Set variometer sensor (FVAS) data
telemetry.setFvasData(depth); // Altitude in m (can be nevative)
// Set GPS data
float heading = 125.22;
telemetry.setGpsData(39.847993, -105.104269, // Latitude and longitude in degrees decimal (positive for N/E, negative for S/W)
depth, // Altitude in m (can be negative)
calc_speed, // Speed in m/s
heading, // Course over ground in degrees
15, 2, 19, // Date (year - 2000, month, day)
12, 00, 00); // Time (hour, minute, second) - will be affected by timezone setings in your radio
float accel_angle_x = 2.35;
float accel_angle_y = 4.25;
float accel_angle_z = 3.15;
telemetry.setTasData(accel_angle_x, // calculated x angle
accel_angle_y, // calculated y angle
accel_angle_z); // calculated z angle
// Set temperature sensor (TEMS) data, two temperatures T1 & T2
// Set temperature sensor (TEMS) data, two temperatures T1 & T2
Temp1 = calc_temp_val(analogTemp1);
Temp2 = calc_temp_val(analogTemp2);
telemetry.setTemsData(Temp1, // Temperature #1 in degrees Celsuis (can be negative)
Temp2); // Temperature #2 in degrees Celsuis (can be negative)
// Set RPM sensor (RPMS) data
// (set number of blades to 2 in telemetry menu to get correct rpm value)
telemetry.setRpmsData(actual_rpm); // Rotations per minute
// Send the telemetry data, note that the data will only be sent for sensors
// that had their data set at least once. Also it will only be set in defined
// time intervals, so not necessarily at every call to send() method.
telemetry.send();
delay(100); //delay for 1/10 of a second
}
float fmap (float x, float in_min, float in_max, float out_min, float out_max) {
return (x - in_min) * (out_max - out_min) / (in_max - in_min) + out_min;
}
float calc_temp_val(int analog_pin){
uint16_t raw_val;
float temp, raw_float;
temp = 0;
raw_val = analogRead(analog_pin);
// raw_val = 1023 - raw_val;
raw_float = raw_val;
temp = fmap(raw_val, minraw, maxraw, minreal, maxreal);
// Serial.print("raw temp: ");
// Serial.print(analog_pin);
// Serial.print(" ");
// Serial.println(raw_val);
return temp;
}
float calc_voltage_val(){
int RawValue = analogRead(analogVolt);
voltage = RawValue;
// Serial.print("raw volt: ");
// Serial.println(RawValue);
voltage = voltage / voltsdiv; // Gets you adjusted Volts
return voltage;
}
float calc_amperage_val(){
int RawValue = analogRead(analogAmp);
Serial.print("raw amps: ");
Serial.println(RawValue);
float mVoltage = RawValue;
mVoltage = mVoltage / 1024.0;
mVoltage = mVoltage * 5000; // Gets you mV 5000 is VCC for 5v arduino
Serial.print("mVolts: ");
Serial.println(mVoltage);
//Next 2 lines by RDF to output raw amps
//amperes = abs(((mVoltage - ACSoffset) / mVperAmp));
amperes = RawValue;
Serial.print("Input on A2: ");
Serial.println(amperes);
return amperes;
}
Last edited by david f on Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:00 am; edited 2 times in total
Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:46 pm by tsenecal
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