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Hi folks I'm new here so I thought I would introduce myself. I've been making model boats and aircraft since I was a boy but just started on Submarines. My first project was a conversion of the Revell Skipjack class kit to a working model. I wanted something simple so I used a rubber motor like those which used to power model aircraft to make into into a free running model. Ballasted to neutral buoyancy it dives dynamically, looks good underwater, and is great fun to take swimming in a pool or lake, but it's not so good on the local boating lake as you really have to be in the water to run it! I also made a ROV from a web camera for underwater filming. It's very simple: the camera is in a plastic bag with a glass window attached to a simple pod with an electric motor and the camera and motor are controlled by an umbilical cord to the shore. Alternatively the camera can be attached to a pole for shots in murky water with obstructions. I'm now working on a model of the bathyscaphe Trieste. It will be a free diving working model using the same principles as the original although the float will be filled with cooking oil rather than petrol for safety. Dives will be controlled by a timer which will release the ballast and the sphere will carry a camera. All being well I hope to test it in Ullswater next summer.

Hello every one. I just registered as a guest ultimately join the association. After retiring as a mechanical engineer specialized in metal forging, I decided to add to my already busy hobby list to go into R/C model submarines. I got started with Caswell folks (Sub Driver) and of course many help from David Merriman. I am entirely new to R/C toys so I am also learning R/C 101.
My hobbies includes motor cycles which I have a couple left. A classic BMW R50 and a newer BMW R1100S. I am also into marquee cars which I still have a 1996 Impala SS with 8400 miles (garage king), my favorite daily driver MB S550. I had a Pontiac T/a with 45k miles all original that I gave to my son recently. I still find time to care for a pond with Kois. And there is the garden work and Honey Dos. And still active as a technical consultant to several manufacturing companies.

I decided that I will pursue this with hulls made from scratch, i.e. my concept. No real submarine exists that it is a model to. Being I am not very well equipped with machines and tools, I figured I will start with a wooden hull which I fully coated with epoxy and paint to seal it. It worked beautifully.  See it on u tube video ssbn harpoon. The sub is about 36" long. Frames made from poplar hobby wood. Skin uses a hobby ash plywood. All held together by JB Weld epoxy. The entire surfaces were sealed by enamel paint primer followed by epoxy coating and final coat of epoxy paint. Once I am satisfied with the model, I plan to execute it in some kind of plastic. The shape I decided to adopt is based on the stealth form used on fighter jets. However there were two major issues.

The first design had structural design details which allowed the hull to twist (breathe) between runs and dry dock Likely also is the poor encapsulation or waterproofing I did. I decided then to make a second iteration to rectify, and was successful. Fitted metal stiffeners and slightly wider to have a full arc transverse frames.

It uses David Merriman's 2" WTC design propulsion system for Seawolf models but modified motor system. Uses compressed gas system ballast control for buoyancy control. So this issue is now resolved.

The second issue is the loss of radio signal when diving say more than two feet or up to about 4-5 feet deep depending on the particular swimming pool I am using. The issue seems to be the chemicals in the pool. Surely some one must have tackled this issue already. I am using GWS 75 MHz with a WFLY 8 digital transmitter and a SombraLabs receiver. For me, the swimming pools are my only reasonable play option. I like to be sable to park it at the bottom of the pool or crawl on the pool floor.
A compromise is to limit diving to static at top of sail depth and dynamic to go deeper. But I wish to achieve my intended goal if at all feasible to hoover static at depths.

I read that a 27 or 45 Mhz is the way to go? Then I can simply change my crystals assuming my transmitter and receiver are not issues?

Help any one.

Thanks.

HI @Cliffhanger67

Do You think you can ad a Youtube link with the movie?!

THANK YOU

Hi,

I think that  you will find that the problem with swimming pools relates to relates to the concentration of dissolved minerals in the water. this gives the water higher conductivity which reduces the strength of the radio signal. Some people blame it on the chlorine and this is sort of right  but a little imprecise. An extreme example is sea water - where there is hardly any propagation of a radio signal.

Having said this, there is not much you can about a pool where the radio is not working well. Top up more with fresh water, try to add fewer chemicals, ask kids not to p*e in it etc. etc. ! You will probably find that going from 75 to 27 MHz  gives only a marginal improvement also. There is also a shortage of r/c equipment for anything other than 2.4Ghz now (Which is useless for subs) which adds to our problems. We have found some pools with metal handrails which seemed to affect radio signals particularly if they get immersed.

I am not exactly a swimming pool expert though. We tend not to have outdoor swimming pools on this side of the pond and usually resort to lakes and muddy ponds. In these, we appreciate the comfort and reassurance of a sound generating Pinger unit combined with a hydrophone to recover subs after accidents.

Your wooden hull sounds very interesting. Some people here still build in wood with internal sealed boxes or WTCs. I suppose most are glass fibre though. Some of the wooden ones end up being made into fibreglass moulds by our Chairman Nigel who is a bit of an expert when it comes to resin! He uses sectional moulds etc. etc.

Anyway more of that in the future, welcome to the AMS Forum!

David

A good day to all.
I am new to the world of RC Subs, but a general "maker" of things, so I at home with most forms of construction in wood, metal, and plastic etc.
What I am not familiar with is all this "Electrickery" stuff.
So - a few basic questions if you will. Radio kit, this new 548-459HMZ, were do you buy such things, and automatic leveller's ?
I am starting off small and will try dynamic diving on my first (small ) model. 1:150 U boat as a shell.
Once I have got the swing of it all - I hope to go bigger and better
Many thanks

Welcome to the hobby. A quick note, small does not equal easier. Revell makes a 1/72 Skipjack which is easy to convert to RC. Another is Bronco's 1/35 Type XXIII. Both have roomy hulls. The Skipjack is a bullet underwater if you want it to be.
The issue with small (and our mind seems to equate this) is it is not much less expensive than a larger model and you have the problem of packing 10 pounds of stuff into a 5 pound space.
I am not at my main computer, so I am hoping someone can give you a list of vendors, if not I can post later.
Peace,
Tom

Many thanks for the reply. My idea is to try the small size, and understand "whats, what." The basics understood, move to larger model, with ballast tanks etc.
The smallness of the first, is the chalenge- as well as, for me the dreaded "electrickery". I have found the smaller things are, the harder things like control surfaces etc are to have any effect. So I was using the smaller scale as a "learning by trial and effect" exercise.
But you may be right. the Skipjack is cheap, but I would still do as a dymamic dive, untill I have the swing of the bascics.
Again, Thank you.

i wish to add my vote of support to you, but as does salmon, you are stacking the deck in the wrong direction by assuming that a small boat will be easier to "get the concepts"  in reality what you will find is that so many things are too tiny to work.  at all.  it takes an individual with years of experience to effectively take a tiny model that barely works as a classic "clock-work" style of contraption, and take (as salmon puts it) another 10 pounds of stuff into the 5 pound bag.

give yourself a fighting chance at making something that will work, and start with a submarine whose smallest internal part is large enough for you to fit your hand inside of.

as salmon pointed out, there at least two plastic model kits that will work better as first time subs.


as to the other questions....

hobbyking sells inexpensive devices that can be effectively upgraded to 458/459mhz systems:  http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__718__190__Radios_Receivers-UHF_LRS.html

specifically the orangeRX devices listed as Open LRS 433mhz


as to levelers...  for europeans, i recommend the Engel products. http://www.engel-modellbau.eu/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=2_87&products_id=2555   or the microgyro products...  i don't have a link for them, though

edit:

microgyros website no longer works, but this may be a valid email address: info@microgyros.com

Many thank,
Larger it is then. No point in asking for advice to not listen to it.
Many thanks for the info on the radio electrickery stuff, as I said I am a builder of working all sorts for a living, but this is one area I am stumped on.
Think Skiperjack for me, still dynamic dive here. better to learn to walk before blowing all ballast tanks- sorry - run!

600Nitro,

that is a distinct advantage to the skipjack... there is nothing stopping you from building a "simple" WTC for it, then build a second "advanced" one. following that train of logic, the third unit could have even more advanced functionality like working torpedoes....

note that i edited the previous posting and added an email address that may work for microgyros.

as to how to setup the 458mhz trickery, DavidF here is probably the best person to get a hold of.

I must say I like the idea of interchangable units. Better start ordering of kit.
Thank you. I will keep every one up to speed on the build and will need more advice no doubt .
Now time to hit the net and the bank card!

Hi Nitro,

I can only agree that small is not necessarily beautiful when it comes to model subs. It can be really difficult cramming everything into a small hull. (I am sweating over a refit to my small "Holland 1" at the moment.)

I would be only to pleased to help you with 433/458Mhz openLRS ( Though Tim S is the real expert and originator of the technology for model subs.)

You don't say where you are from? Which reminds me to encourage you to become a registered AMS member http://associationofmodelsubmariners.com/ams-membership-form.php)

This affects your choice of R/C gear and setup. If you are from the UK you could also meet up at events to actually see all this electrotrickery stuff - see the events section. (Norwich is the big-one coming up. Bournville in September is central in the UK.)

And welcome to model subs - endlessly fascinating (and often infuriating but in a nice way!)

David

TECHNICALLY -I live in France, Thats technically, in reality its the UK. I work in education and for my sins the film world, so reality is Oxfoprd/ Cambridge, and camping on the M25!
Any help with electrikery most welcome. As I understand it, I buy a 2.4 transmitter, buy a pack to turn it to 433 MHz, retune for UK- is that correct ?
Are the reievers available, or is there more electrikery magic involved ?
Many thanks

600Nitro wrote:TECHNICALLY -I live in France, Thats technically, in reality its the UK. I work in education and for my sins the film world, so reality is Oxfoprd/ Cambridge, and camping on the M25!
Any help with electrikery most welcome. As I understand it, I buy a 2.4 transmitter, buy a pack to turn it to 433 MHz, retune for UK- is that correct ?
Are the reievers available, or is there more  electrikery magic involved ?
Many thanks

You've just dipped your toe into the flaming pit, pal. If you can't solder --  now's the time to learn!

Here's some block diagrams to give you a taste of how the power and devices are hooked up in a typical r/c submarine employing a ballast tank and auto leveling of the stern planes:















.... and, the pay-off when you get it all right:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhAG-7W_5kA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSr41K5Uaj4

David

Hi  Nitro,

For openLRS equipment, Hobbyking is probably the best and certainly the cheapest, supplier.

Remember that this technology for subs is still developing and so so it is not an "out of the box" solution. Have a read of the threads on here and SubPirates and Tim Senecals original guide on the SubCommittee Forum. If the threads terrify you then I suggest you pick up some secondhand  40Mhz gear,  but that is only a short term fix. (That technology has little commercial support now.)

So get reading and remember that the threads will take you up some "cul de sacs" (Your actual French!) but you get to something that works in the end.

To give an indication of it's usefulness my 40Mhz stuff has been gathering dust for the last 2 years. (But no I'm not planning to sell it - the prices aren't high enough yet! But seriously it is becoming hard to come-by and I hear that things like crystals are very hard to find.)

David F

P.S Yes you're right. In the UK  we change the frequency from 433 to 458Mhz (The UK legal frequency). It is "easy" (if you are PC literate anyway) to do this via a USB cable and the handy Chrome software. I use Futaba transmitters with modules but maybe these are harder to find now too?? Anyone know?

david f wrote:I use Futaba transmitters with modules but maybe these are harder to find now too?? Anyone know?

futaba 7, 8, 9 channel module based radios still pop up quite frequently on ebay. prices range from reasonable to outrageous, but i am unsure how popular they were to begin with in europe, so not sure if there are many available on the east side of the pond. buying one from the US should be okay, it doesn't matter what type of module it ships with, that will be replaced with the 433/458mhz stuff anyway.

Thanks Tim. So even with openLRS it is hard for a newcomer to buy new gear off the shelf!

The Hobbyking receivers are available and cheap but if you wish to get a BRAND NEW TX for use with openLRS you have problems??

(I very much like the Phil Green Arduino based DIY transmitter (details elsewhere on this Forum) but that is hardly appropriate for a beginner.)

The problems of having a "niche" hobby!

David

david f wrote:Thanks Tim. So even with openLRS it is hard for a newcomer to buy new gear off the shelf!

Actually, i was just commenting on your using futaba transmitters... they are still available, if that is what you are looking for.

for a first time submarine "tester", if you don't already have a "stick" style transmitter with 6 or more channels, i would probably recommend the Turnigy 9x and an OrangeRX 433mhz module for it. that's about as "inexpensive" as you can get.

if you already have a radio capable of handling all the functions, but not on the appropriate ground frequency, then its best to just buy the appropriate module for that.

if you are the type that wants "the best of the best of the best", for 433mhz, i would recommend the Taranis, and a DTF UHF deluxe JR transmitter module/DTF receiver. top of the line, but basically three times the price of a Turnigy 9x and an OrangeRX transmitter module & receiver. ($325 US vs $123 US, plus shipping)... but there is no limit on what you could do with the Taranis.

Tom(ADMIN) wrote:If you've just joined our forum, then welcome...introduce yourself here, say hello and tell us something about yourself.

Hello everyone in underwater world
i have a unbuilt Darnell T class on the bench ,iam starting from scratch any help/advise is welcomed
I was a member of AMS many years ago when i had a Darnell type 21 (which i wish i still had ! sady i sold it a few years ago ) which i bought second hand . It was already built and worked well !
Im looking forward to building and using it !
TTFN

welcome........looking fwd to read your progress in a build log.

Grtz,
Bart

leadsled welcome to forum. also looking forward to the build.

Thank you for allowing me into your wonderful forum. I live in Charleston, South Carolina and I specialize in German U-Boats, as my avatar shows, but I am making my first rendition of the British X-Craft. I served on Submarines and made patrols out of Charleston, SC, Kings Bay, Georgia, and Holyloch, Scotland. I've visited Faslane on port call and enjoyed the company of the British bubbleheads several times, always the best of hosts. I am retired now and enjoy modeling as my second most prolific hobby; motorcycles are my first love. This is a lovely forum and all of you make it so. Thanks again!

hello my name is Rob

i have got a old sub from Krick the U25 wooden hull
it was a barn find so it needs some work so i am looking for some drawings
so any information about this sub is welcome
regards Rob

Hi Rob

Welcome to the forum, The only one that I know who has had or may still have a Krick is Dave Austin, it may be worth a try.

Fred